daylyn: (Default)
daylyn ([personal profile] daylyn) wrote2005-07-17 02:14 pm

My two cents: Snape



Well, I just feel the desperate need to add my own two cents in.

After calming down and a good night’s sleep, I can honestly say that my Snape love knows no bounds and is as strong as ever.

Yes, I felt almost raw after finishing HBP. And yes, I actually cried (just a little) for Snape. And I’d like to say ‘kudos’ to JKR for having that sort of impact on me. While I have a few issues with her writing (and seriously, has she been trolling fanfics for ideas/’ships/terms? – she actually called it the DADA position), I remain in love with the world she created.

But Snape. Snape. My god, she managed to take an already interesting and morally ambiguous character and give him so many more dimensions. We see his interactions and manipulations with “Cissy” and “Bella”. How perfectly he plays them. He knows just what to say to get the information he wants (he knew the Dark Lord’s plans beforehand my ass!). He’s a master at his game.

We learn of his time in school as the HBP, and what a brilliant potions student he really was. How he created new spells, and basically rewrote the advanced potions textbook.

We see his eloquence in the classroom. How he commands a room. And how he finally, finally, can teach the subject he loves.

We learn how he argues with Dumbledore, and how Dumbledore has taken too much for granted. What, exactly, has Dumbledore taken for granted? Could it be his demand that Snape fulfill his oath? And we see, over and over again, how much Dumbledore trusts him, and how little he’s concerned with Harry’s conviction that Snape will betray him. Dumbledore is no dummy – I don’t believe that he’s gotten it wrong for all these years.

We see two powerful Occulmens staring at each other as one lies dying – you can’t tell me that there was no communication between them. We see the hatred and revulsion Snape has at carrying out his task. Hatred and revulsion at what? Dumbledore? Unlikely. Himself? His task? Much more likely.

We see how Snape keeps Harry safe from the Death Eaters, protecting him yet again. We see Snape, even after everything happens, still trying to teach Harry: “Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter.” Harry needs to learn wordless magic and control – Snape’s just trying to make him see that.

And when does Snape lose it? When Harry uses his own spells against him (like Harry’s father had done) and then calls him a coward. Of all the insults Harry could have used, why would that one bother Snape the most? Because, assuming that Snape really is the “good” guy I just know him to be, he has just done the most difficult thing of his life – killed his mentor, protector, and the only person who trusts him fully. And he killed him for a greater purpose – to get closer to Voldemort and work against him internally. Not the work of a coward, but the duty of someone who was willing to sacrifice everything – his friends, his job, his life – to do what must be done.

I fully believe that Dumbledore knows what’s coming. He knows of Draco’s plan (and where do you think he got that information from, hmm?) He knows he’s dying from his injury. And he knows Snape will have to leave at the end of the year – that Snape’s oath must be fulfilled. (Why else would he be allowed to teach DADA? Dumbledore knows the position is cursed. And he doesn’t actually hire a new potions master until after Snape makes his oath.) I believe that Dumbledore and Snape had Dumbledore’s death planned all along.

I completely refuse to believe that Snape is The Evil. While I feel that his final redemption will come with a heavy price, I do feel that he will redeem himself in the last book.


Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, how many of you foresee Dobby/Kreacher OTP fics? I know I do.

And I still love my Snarry, no matter what. Now the challenge really begins…


[identity profile] sputz-n-micah.livejournal.com 2005-07-17 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh gods, I when I read the Dobby/Kreacher fight scene a thought crept into my brain: UST. *is horrified*

...on the other hand, tormenting Sputz with the suggestion of house-elf sex will be so much fun... ~_^

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-17 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. He truly is a tragic character. God, I can't wait to read the next book.

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-17 11:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I know. Just how much slash can JKR add to her story? Lots and lots, it appears.

I need a Dobby/Kreacher icon. Desperately.

Have fun tormenting.

Maybe....

[identity profile] igtow.livejournal.com 2005-07-17 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Someone here on LJ has said that one must be fully behind someone to stab them in the back.

The Dumbledore portrait idea is a good one, assuming he wakes up in time; however, I am more inclined to think that Dumbledore and Snape KNEW he could never contact the members of the Order and that Snape's role is now that of Voldemort's betrayer; the one who weakens/distracts Voldemort enough that Harry can go in for the kill.

I think this because, regardless of how powerful a wizard he is, Harry is:
1) Largely untrained;
2) Surrounded now by people who want to protect him rather than push him into danger (which won't do anything but drag it out);
3) Harry's a teenager, and no offense to teenagers out there, the majority can't rationally think their way out of a paper bag. Witness all of Harry's misconceptions as he relies on his emotional perceptions rather than paying attention to the 'cold' details.

I think they (Snape and Dumbledore) started out years ago with the assumption that Dumbledore would be there to help guide Harry (since Harry *loves* Snape so much--and I think the animosity was carefully and coldly nurtured in case Harry was ever caught) and when that was no longer possible (i.e. Dumbledore was dying from the first curse), Albus and Snape cooked up a plan that would at least give the boy a chance to succeed, but ONLY if Snape could get himself into a SOLID position of trust fully *behind* Voldemort and either (as I repeat from before) redirect the Dark Lord's attention (Look, Mouldie, it's a plane--stab), or weaken him (OH, are we feeling a little under the weather?--stab). I think Snape killing Albus made that goal more achievable.

Anyway, just my take on it. Feel free to disagree.

[identity profile] writeblindly.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
Ofcourse! All of those things make Severus Snape who he is. You can't say you don't like a person like that.

Re: Maybe....

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 12:15 am (UTC)(link)
I don't know if they concocted the plan years ago, but I do believe that Harry's hatred of Harry was carefully cultivated. And I also believe that Snape going back to the DE's will be a major factor in Voldemort's demise. Harry cannot do it alone -- and Snape has ensured the fact that he will definitely be there.

[identity profile] sputz-n-micah.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
But I can't! *wails* She's still in Israel! (And sleeping in cockroaches, according to her very brief and rather confusing single email she's managed to send...) So (a) I can't talk to her and (b) she hasn't read HBP yet.

...ah well, I shall just have to anticipate... ~_^

[identity profile] auctasinistra.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
There is only one problem that is prohibiting me from jumping up there with you - if Snape is going to spy internally and even if he gathers Tommy's most secret plans, who in the Order will believe him?

He doesn't necessarily need to spy any more. He may now be a bomb, planted to go off at the most opportune time to help destroy Voldemort.
ext_41768: (Wolf/wild soul by kcwriter)

[identity profile] the-owlcat.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 02:17 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly enough. I meant that Dumbledore didn't plead for mercy in a "Please let me live, save me!!" way. He was clearly already dying from poisoning indeed. Besides, like I said previously- it had to be Snape.

Indeed, there is a huge Snarry possibility, the book didn't kill it at all. Even though I could see a lot of Drarry potential as well. I like both ships so I'm glad that they don't have to be written in total AU even after this book. :)

[identity profile] sternel.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 02:25 am (UTC)(link)
No, I got that. =D

I just think there are two different ways to interpret "mercy." One, like you said, is sparing him, the other is ending it quickly. I think, given the pain he was in, that what Severus did, in a way, was an act of great kindness.

[identity profile] august-showers.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
Here via the Daily Snitch.

Not the work of a coward, but of duty of someone who was willing to sacrifice everything – his friends, his job, his life – to do what must be done.

Yes, exactly. Thank you.

ok here is my theory....

[identity profile] sass-macfru.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:55 am (UTC)(link)
I think that the person who wrote the note for Lord V to find was Regulus Black. It fits, the note was written by a Death Eater (as far as I know they are the only ones who use the "Dark Lord" bit) who was wanting to leave the DE's and stop Lord V and knew because of this that they would soon be dead. I believe that it is either hidden at 12 or that Kreacher knows where it is. He would be happy to do Regulus's bidding. What do you think?

Re: ok here is my theory....

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 07:43 am (UTC)(link)
I completely agree. I'm sure that one of the Horcruxes is at Grimmauld Place. I also wonder if Snape helped to make the poison that Regulus and Dumbledore took, and therefore knew that Dumbledore was already dying.

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
Your welcome. I truly believe that Snape's part is not over in this tale, and that more ambiguity surrounds him. No matter what you think about Snape, this wasn't a clear cut betrayal, but is part of some higher plan.

[identity profile] playingwithfyre.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:13 pm (UTC)(link)
haha, omg.
I heart you.
Your summary of your convictions in Snape and what he has done and still must do mirrored my own so well, and so eloquently. I didn't think a post about a topic eaten to death over the past few days could make me cry. I feel bad for the people that underestimate Snape and were just dying to pin the Evil title on him. Thanl you for this lovely and heart warming revue of him.
I am friending you so hard.

[identity profile] amandasaitou.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Snape is no evil, the whole of book six is a plot planned by Dumbledore himself, and Snape play along as the master he is... and yeah, I fear the price of his redemption, if Rowling doesn't mind about killing Dumbledore, then she might be able to kill anyone, even SNape, right?
Amanda

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you so much. I really so think there are more dimensions to Snape. It doesn't make sense for JKR to make him just The Evil at this point. She definitely has more up her sleeves.

And I'll friend you back. Snape fans need to unite!

Cheers.

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-18 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, JKR has shown little resistance to killing off her favorite characters. I do fear that Snape is very unlikely to survive the next book. *sigh*

But I do think there will be redemption before the end.

And I LOVE your icon, btw.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/__starbuck__/ 2005-07-18 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
i agree completely with everything you just said, and i noticed all the things you mentioned. he totally was ORDERED by dumbledore to commit the murder (and in my mind, to protect draco). yep yep, snape is the most UNSELFISH and BRAVE chara in the book. ROCK ON SEVVY!

now i'm off to feel more pity for draco and cry my eyes out.

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-19 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
Poor Sevvie. So misunderstood. I hope against hope that Harry will see it in the end.

And I feel for Draco. He's in a bad way, isn't he? But Snape was able to save him from becoming a murderer, so maybe not all is lost for him either.

[identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/__starbuck__/ 2005-07-19 02:44 am (UTC)(link)
i know, snape has to die in the end, there's really no way around it. but harry will also realize that snape has been a good guy all along, and snape will be remembered as a good guy (at least he BETTER BE)

draco crying to myrtle!!! guh, that so broke my heart. and you could tell for a second that harry was pitying him too, till draco noticed him in the bathroom and they dueled. i think draco has no choice but to turn out good now, he has to pay back snape for killing dumbledore and preventing him from becoming a murderer.

[identity profile] celtic-phantasm.livejournal.com 2005-07-21 07:00 am (UTC)(link)
Pft. How did I miss this earlier?
Reading this makes some of the other stuff people have said seem quite a bit less significant and well, a lot of the points you've said make a lot of sense. I suppose I'll have to read a bit more deeply the second time around. :)

[identity profile] daylyn.livejournal.com 2005-07-21 04:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I truly believe that Snape has more of a role to play and that his loyalties are not clear-cut. He's an interesting character (one of the most interesting that JKR created, I think), and he's going to be damn important to the final confrontation.

[identity profile] vejgeta9.livejournal.com 2005-07-28 12:55 am (UTC)(link)
If you check out her site, she even gives acklodements to different shippers. I thought that was pretty cool.

[identity profile] vejgeta9.livejournal.com 2005-07-28 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
After reading your theroy on Snape, I am inclined to agree. And suprisingly, I agree with you more than I agree with Arr!! (Please Arr, don't be angry with me!!) I can understand what you mean, and how it all comes together. Makes perfect sense. I only give that praise out when there is no way I can disprove it, or find a loophole.

However, keep in mind, we all could be wrong! ;p

Luv ya, Daylyn!!

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